First I just want to say that I was thrilled to see so many people show up for tonights meeting that we had to move it to the library. Although once again I wasn't surprised to see so many people considering we were presented with an informational session regarding health care costs and... THE SURVEY RESULTS ARE IN!! More on that later when I've actually had a chance to study the data.
I don't have much to say because as it turns out, everything I write is an unfair labor practice. So the best I can do for now is say - talk quietly amongst yourselves. Feel free to start a topic or hijack the blog for the next few days with your own agendas. I know there are plenty of them out there.
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52 comments:
I can understand the teacher's union wanting to flex thier muscles and bully the board into keeping and enjoying provisions that have been in past contracts. Who would want to give up the spoils that past generations of teachers have gotten for todays educators. However, when the majority of other professions and average-joe employees have felt the strains of lost benefits, reduced hours, pay freezes, pay cuts and so on, it is hard for moi to sympathize with the plight the teachers face. With no dental plan myself, and a yearly deductible of $2500 / $5000 family medical cap, I have a hard time handing my $$ over just so a teacher doesn't have to bump up thier deductible to what, $100 a year? Do those teachers realize how many young kids are out there wanting to be in their position? Any old timers remember the air traffic control strike? How about the Lawson's strike? Those strikers all lost their jobs. So much for the union. They were replaced with equally qualified people for less money. Everybody is replaceable. Go ask a Goodyear employee what they gained from their recent strike? I challenge all teachers who are not happy with what the board wants to give them, to find another union job that will. And yes, I am anti-union.
Do tell girl friend, what are the results? My biggest question, how many surveys were returned?
'bust the union',
Whether you are pro-union or anti-union, you are missing the point. Our teachers among others made concessions to bail us out of a financial mess that someone else created, because they believed it was the right thing to do for the good of the district. At that time, they were promised that the things they gave up to pull us out of financial crisis would be given back to them. Imagine their surprise that Ed has gone back on his word yet AGAIN. Where were you when in the midst of this 'crisis', our administrators were given raises AND shortly thereafter our superintendent and treasurer received increases as well. Proposed by school board member Therese Dunphy, I might add. REMEMBER THIS COME ELECTION TIME.
I am tired of levy blackmail. We need money for this, we need money for that. I don't care if its a new levy or a replacement, my money is not being wisely spent. You got your money, now take care of our teachers so our kids can get the education they deserve. As far as everyone being replaceable, remember that you get what you pay for. Our teachers are near the bottom of the pay scale list in this area. I find that fact utterly embarrassing, and believe it conveys the message that we don't value them enough to pay them what they are worth. Our teachers have a right to expect compensation comparable to teachers in neighboring communities. If we want to keep quality educators in the Cf school district, we need to place as much value on their jobs as our administrators have placed on theirs.
parentssupportcfea
AMEN to that. However cfea endorsed 2 of their biggest problems, Dunphy and Grimes, on the other hand Dunphy and Grimes have given cfea the ammunition to fire back. I hope cfea will be more selective in their choices for November.
In reading the Falls news press story about the community survey I had to stop and think about a few things.
I remember the the first year of the Plan for excellence and when I was speaking to a group of people at a public forum at the high school library. We were asking about ideas to get input from the community. There were many ideas, using the newspaper, putting a survey on the internet. It was the first time I met Kellie. Say said that we need to ask every single taxpayer their opinion and that alot of the older folks may not have internet service. She said anything else would be unfair.
Now this is the same person that has been blamed for every little riff on the BOE. This is the same person that has been accused of making this community the laughing stock of summit county. This is the same person who has been insulted, put down, and kicked for everything she has tried to do.
I also think about Barb Gunter. She has also helped push the survey ahead. Time and time again she asked that the board move foward to let the people's voice be heard. Of course how could we forget that this is the same board member that was asked to resign by a staged ill informed group because she was just out of touch with how things really were. This same group howled and cried foul because sending the survey to everyone was a waste of money.
Well fancy this.This so called ill conceived idea has resulted in a record number of surveys returned. Mr. O'Callagham states that we returned the most surveys ever for his company.
I think we can now see who is really in touch with reality and who is really looking out for the taxpayers of this community. As a taxpayer and parent of this community I would like to thank you both. I know you have both been through hell to make this happen. I believe you have both been vindicated by these results.
Is this a threat by you to all the teachers/staff of the school??? I believe you should resign from your position. NO ONE WANTS A STRIKE!!!! You are asking your teachers and staff (except the higher up ofcourse) to take a VERY LARGE PAY CUT!!!! No raise and pay for insurance, and higher deductibles!! then you still want the best education for our children? You do not have all your facts. The deductibles are now more than $100. Please get your facts straight before you shoot off your mouth!!!!
Barry, WELCOMW BACK. The return of and the results of the survey are exciting. I am eager to share the results with the public.
Congatulations ladies, Ms Patterson and Mrs Gunter, job well done. You both continue to prove why you earned the most votes in the last election. Keep up the good work.
Sandra: Who are you spouting your mouth off to (to use your terms) and just whom are you asking to resign? I don't see any public official posting any of what you are assuming. Maybe YOU should get YOUR facts straight before shooting off YOUR mouth?
Taxpayer,
I do have MY facts straight, thank you. It is the general public and Ms. Patterson who do not know what is actually going on. Staff deductibles are over $100 a year already. So let's see here, they want staff to pay for insurance, 30% at least, have higher deductibles, more out of pocket and not have a pay raise??? hmmmm doesn't sound fair to me! how about the rest of you???
Sandra: Where do you get those facts? I haven't seen Kellie state that? 100.00 deductible? Wow, that's great! You should see what we (those of us living in the REAL WORLD) pay per year in monthly premiums, co-insurance and deductibles. Sorry, but I don't feel sorry for the teachers. I do believe, however, that everybody deserves a raise for a job well done. I think it should be tied to merit and performance.
I think as a tax payer whose money goes to pay teacher's salaries, that I(we) should have a huge say in what is fair or not in a teaching contract. Asking to pay for insurance costs is right in line with what the majority of job holders in the city have to do. Our insurance costs go up and our employers cannot absorb those costs so they are passed on to us workers. This is what is happening to the schools. Tax payers cannot support their own medical costs let alone continue to carry the school employees. Many of us workers no longer have perks and fringe benefits, and that is what they are "perks". We live in an economy where job perks continue to diminish. Our city is not in a home building boom. Our city is not a growing city. We've lost industrial tax bases.
I also feel that the poorest school districts also have quality teachers. Some educators are actually in the business for more than money and job perks. THey are in it for the kids and they don't care whether the district is a top dollar district or a fiscal toilet, they are there to do a job and a high quality teacher will do that job regardless of their work environment.
Pay raises and attendance bonus? Again, a job perk that many school employees enjoy annually that the general public does not. Is that fair?
Kellie did not state that, but that IS what is being proposed. How many of you pay 30% or better of your insurance premium?? How many of you would take a pay cut every year???? I would like to know how much each of you pay for insurance. For a single employee it would be 30% of approx $1400.00
that is alot of money!
Sandra is that $1400.00 the cost of one month's premium?
yes it is, and yes I think they need to find another provider, but they don't think they need to I guess!
Wow! $100 deductable. Mine is also $2500/ 5000!! I also pay 50% of the premium. Vision and dental not included. The only job guarantee I have is if I'm still there at noon, I'm guaranteed a job at least the rest of that day. As for the "underpaid" statement, let's do a little math. Average teacher salary in CF is $48,000. Average household salary in CF is $41,000. Average days worked for a teacher- 180. Average days for the rest of us 250. Summer months off is a large benefit that most teachers refuse to calculate in their "packages". Our CF average teachers "package is worth about $90,000 per year. And that doesn't include the unknown value of having a guaranteed job no matter how poorly you perform! Can anyone put a value on that for me because I think it's worth about a million dollars! So lets add:
$48,000 avg salary
$15,000 insurance package
$16,000 value of 3 months vaction
$1000 laughable attendance bonus
$10,000 misc sick and personal days
---------
$90,000
Some other "perks": 2 required periods children free. paid professional development. I don't know about you but I pay for my own continuing education to keep my license current. And if you have two free periods, why in the hell are you taking work home?
If you want to be treated like professionals, act like a professional.
Blue collar workers have unions. Professionals earn their wages the free market way. Being better than the rest and proving themselves to their employers.
I got my last raise 2 years ago. My choice was no raise and keep my job or leave the company. We ALL make sacrifices for our jobs. The only difference between me and teachers was I didn't have our kids to hold hostage and taxpayers to extort.
smart alex: VERY well stated. Also let's not forget the average hours worked per day and the payment for extra duty contracts. As salaried employees we are required to do lots of "extra duty" tasks for NO more pay and work well beyoud 40 hours per week & come in on weekends with no ovetime pay. It is just "expected." Work is taken home with our jobs as well. If we don't like it, that's tough, we know where the door is. We get no attendance bonuses either.
Lets refigure that 90k amount shown and make it a bit more realistic. If teachers are asked to pay 30% of their monthly premium then their premium must be about $4700 a month x 12 months. That totals closer to $52,000 a year not the $15k you show. Which makes their total salary and benefits package closer to $150,000 a year instead of your $90k figure. Oh yeah, you forogt to add in the dollar amount they get for classroom set up and the salary they earn when they are sitting in workshops. "What you say" some teachers earn summer money by attending classes because they get paid an hourly rate for the time they put in to attend classes. And you wonder why we are broke?
parentssupportcfea:
Good point! how many times does the higher ups go back on their word to employees while they still get their raises AND perks, AND insurance, AND whatever else they can get.
Most of you out there are really clueless to how many hours a teacher actually puts into their work. The job is not 7-3, I dont care how many periods the kids are out of the room. The state demands so much of teachers that it is ridiculous! Any teacher that is worth their salt works many many hours a day AND in the summer.
Staff deductibles right now are 250/500.
It used to be said, that the school systmes may not pay much, but they sure do have good benefits. Not any longer. You seem to be mad at teachers for things that are not their fault! You need to fight the funding battle for schools in Columbus, with the Govenor. He needs to hear your voice. Aren't school employees taxpayers too? Do you think they do like to be taxed to death? School employees are fighting for your rights as well as their own when they fight this battle in Columbus. Why not join them>
What are you mad about, that teachers are paid to much or that they are paid with tax dollars? If it's that teachers are paid too much then how many of you have either watched on tv or been to an Indians or Cavs game lately. We all know that almost every tv has been tuned into the Cavs and how much money does LeBrone make? Talk about being over paid he plays a game and makes millions yet everyone tunes in and yes by tuning in you help pay the salaries of these people. If our tax dollars paid the salaries we would still tune in and if they became the champions even better, but our tax dollars help the games now by paying to build staduims and such. Let's don't put down these grown men that play a game and make millions WITHOUT a college degree, let's go after those sorry uneducated teachers that do nothing and make all that money.
I think we should let the people sitting at the table work this out and may the best team win. After all that how the game is played whether for millions or thousands.
I don't think paying $400 a month is out of line for such low deductibles. I pay $180 a month with $2000 per person or $4000 total for family per year. I pay $20co-pay office visits, the first $50 on any prescription, no vision, no dental, by the time I've gotten to my medical deductible, it is December and I start the cycle all over again in January. I never meet it. So the trade off for higher premiums,is the low deductibles. I'm not sure which is the lesser evil. What will the teachers be getting for their $400 a month? Times are a-changing, and according to madame Kellie, change is good. This is not your father's Cuyahoga Falls. Todays economy cannot support the goods that were set up in the hey days of a booming economy.
princess,
for the ridiculous amount of $420 they would recieve highger deductibles, per person and family, higher co pay's, (more than likely as high as they can get them.) The most important is there is no raise in pay.
Here is a novel idea. Close Silver Lake. Use the potential cost savings to give to the teachers for their raise. Step raises should be abolished. They are a thing of the past. Raises should be based upon merit. I don't buy into the well he got a raise so I deserve a raise. If the teachers are not getting their rasies, then it is because Terese Dunphy is voting no. And we all know her word is gospel.
How do you propose to pay based on merit. As a district or teacher to teacher basis. If it's based on the district, look at how our district has moved right on up the ladder. The state reports and scores have increased each year. So I guess they deserve that raise huh? If you do it on a teacher to teacher basis, you are opening a whole new can of worms. They don't get to choose the students they educate. In fact, I know a teacher in a neighboring school district that takes all the LD kids from the grade into her classroom rather than sharing them evenly among the other sections which many districts do. This year a teacher might have a great group, the next year might be full of future cons. The kids might not give as much effort, but I guarantee the teacher will, if not give more.
I'm sure you mean merit as a district, and our teachers have raised the bar and level of education provided EVERY year since the state has started grading them. Now, why shouldn't they get a pay raise.--And that's probably the sticking point right now. Go ask a teacher and I bet they'll tell you they are willing to pay for some of their insurance. But to make them pay a big chunk without a pay increase is pretty crummy. And for some families and beginning teachers, it could make it impossible for them to keep their current lifestyle. Iknow-they can leave and find a better job. And you know what, I bet some of them will. Way to go. Way to be known as the place chasing teachers out of town.
As a retired teacher I read these comments with interest… let me address some of them: FIRST – ‘PREP’ PERIODS - ‘prep’ periods [those times the students are in art, music, PE leaving the teacher without students] are used to speak with counselors about students, speak with administrators, to call parents, arrange for field trips/speakers, and with luck go to the library for the films and books that support their lesson plan… one common denominator in a ‘prep’ period is that they’re too short. Needless to say, essays,
homework, and tests go home to be graded in peace & quiet – at least quieter than the teacher’s lounge!
SECOND – SUMMERS - summers are not paid vacation… they are a salary divided by 12 instead of the 9 worked; and a great deal of that money goes for university classes and workshops so that we’re the best teacher we can be for your child!
LAST – LEVIES – the median price for a house in the Falls is $106,000 … does the BOE realize what a slap in the face it was to read that twice that amount is being used to renovate the bus garage?
QUESTION 1 – regarding the levy passed to pay off the debt, which was done in 2 ½ years, what percentage is being saved for the district’s use after the levy expires?
QUESTIONS 2 & 3 – will the BOE ever decide to have all meetings in the library so the elderly and disabled can attend? Doesn’t that violate the sunshine law? If not the law, the spirit of the law?
The question about saving money is an excellence one, has anyone looked at the 5 year forecast? If you look 5 years out you will see a train wreck coming, much like the last one!!!!!!!!!!!!
What is wrong with spending money for a new bus garage? Have any of you seen the working conditions in the old garage? It would almost hold one bus! The school system needs to spend money on a new garage AND new buses! You can't fix rot on old buses, especially the ones that are 10 yrs old and older, which the majority of CF are. The school system grows, and so does the busing of children.
Sandra,
I'm not against a new bus garage... the current one should be on the National Register of Historical Buildings!
My concern is that we're putting $222,923. into a 50 year old building PLUS the venting, etc. for the tech center - an additional $99,624.
And how long will we keep that
'renovated' building before we decide it's too old?
Oh yes, and why does the county record the building 'alteration' for exactly $222,923. in April '06 - a month BEFORE the BOE approved the expenditure?
Also, having just come out of tremendous fiscal difficulties now is not the time to be building a tech center or spending so very much to renovate the new bus garage.
This district IS NOT growing that is why the district opened up OUTSIDE open enrollment so they could fill classrooms and get money and we DO NOT bus these students. WE DO NOT BUS a quarter of our own students but by all means let's put our money into HUGH OLD building and call it a NEW bus garage/warehouse, forget renovating any of the school building. And please remember the buses will stay outside and not inside as some think. Before you know it they will be asking to renovate the administrative offices.
Besides Akron were are the only district in our area not to bus our High School students. Oh and don't you worry about paying for improvements for our schools. Since we used all the money on the bus garage blunder & saved nothing in the capital improvements fund, they will be back shortly for a capital improvements levy to fund repairing our "deteriorating buildings." And the kind voters of CF & SL will be glad to give them MORE once again because they NEVER learn that the more WE give, the more THEY spend and their tax and spend mentality goes on and on and on. This will never end until the taxpayers wise up.
Well, taxpayer, this individual has wised up... CF will have the dubious distinction of being the first district in which I've ever voted against a school levy AND I will actively campaign against any that come before us!
I helped pass the large levy with the understanding that they'd pay the debt and save the balance...
Disgusted taxpayer: I am glad you have wised up. We have our work cut out for us.
Disgusted Taxpayer,
IF the building was being used for the bus/maintenance garage it would be fine. BUT the now want to cram everyone and everything in there also! How stupid is it to put a all the computers and tech "stuff" in a dirty garage??? I still believe that the garage was a great idea, and loooong overdue, but trying to make it a tech place is just a plain waste of space and money. As it is to put some of the higher ups in the offices too.
Matt,
CF DOES bus the students who go to other schools outside the district. I believe there are 22 buses now, and all of them are out and about mostly all day long.
Taxpayer- Just because Kelly does not state something here does that make it untrue??? She isn't the only one who knows what is going on. Some people actually know the REAL story!
Sandra, please go back and read my words. I said we DO NOT bus students who enroll in this district but LIVE OUTSIDE this district, hence the term outside open enrollment. Yes, we bus students (who live inside the district) who attend PRIVATE schools that are inside the district and outside the district. The parents have the choice of taking the bus or receiving a $ refund if they choose not to take the bus.
The busses are running all day because they are not being used effectively.
As for your statement "some people actually know the real story" from which BOE member or which administrator would you be reffering to? They are the only ones involved in the story from beginning to end. My guess is each one would interpret the story differently. So Sandra dear, who knows the the "real story"?
Sandra: Is Kellie not entitled to her opinion and to do what she believes she was elected to do as a board meember? Remember SHE received the most votes!! I don't see you asking for the resignation of those BOE members that are self-serving and not representing the desires of the taxpayers. You may or may not agree with Kellie's position on any matter but I am thankful that she stands up for what she believes in and does her best to represent those who elected her to her position. I cannot say that about the troublesome trio. Kellie refuses to be intimidated and she will not be a "rubber stamp" and for that I am grateful. We need a few more like her on the BOE! It is time for change in November!
This talk of a strike is smoke and mirrors. The people will lay down before a strike happens. As I told Ganslien on his blog the parents of Silver lake will shit bricks at the idea of some scab teaching their child. Dunphy will never let it happen.
Why doesn't the fact that the county records show a building 'alteration' for exactly $222,923. in April '06 - a month BEFORE the BOE approved the expenditure - bother anybody but me?
And yes Sandra, it makes no sense to try and make a 52 year old factory into a clean, sealed environment for a tech center.
The additional $99,624 spent on a clean room, plus the $222,924 spent on renovations, equal $322,547. all spent on a building which appraises for only $442,090!
Actually, isn't the tech center more of a luxury? Shouldn't the district first pay for the essentials?
And another question - in the 60's graduations were taken off campus because the number of students PLUS their parent created a crowd too large for the school auditorium... size can't still be the issue... so what did the district pay to have the graduation ceremonies OFF campus?
Does the senior class off set that amount?
There had to be plans and blueprints before the BOE approved the money. The county had a copy to base their amount on. Its not uncommon for those things to have dates that don't match. Nothing shady there Pal. Relax.
I say don't give in to the union. Let them strike if need be and lets make a stand now. We have to get the spending under control now.
We cant afford to keep spending and asking for more levies.
Sorry teachers but now it is time to feel my pain.
It doesn't matter if the union strikes or not. To get the spending under control the BOE majority has to change. Look at the voting record, Patterson and Gunter have voted no on the big item spending (the bus garage, the super and tres raises, etc.) it is Dunphy, Grimmes, and Heath that are in the spend to the end mode.
Dunphy and Heath are up for re-election in November and that will be our turn to let them know how we feel about their job performance. Do they stay or do they go?
Matt,
yes, they do bus some children that are outside the district. any child in the compact that is going to CF for whatever the programs are are bused in by CF.
why do you want teachers and staff to suffer because the BOE has a spending problem?
Smoke and mirrors???? I don't think so! Not this time!
So what are you saying Sandra? Are the teachers willing to strike? I don't think so. I think it is all a bunch of bluffing. Besides Holland does not want a teachers strike on his resume and the teachers don't want to loose money by being on strike. It also sucks trying to bring the children up to speed once the strike is over. As I said, smoke and mirrors.
It doesn't feel like smoke and mirrors to me and as was stated earlier, not the teachers fault. The one constant variable and one thing that can be planned for every year is teachers salaries and benefits. It's never a surprise. It's the spending elsewhere that is the problem. I think a group of teachers willing to give back somewhere around $2 million dollars will be more than willing to sit out a month or two.
princess,
it doesn't matter if the union strikes or not??? think twice before you make that your final answer.
BOE has already in their budget each year staff raises, insurance costs (they budgeted for 25% increase, costs went up 30%)and all the other year to year costs.
Please do not let your children suffer. If you want professionals working with your children, they treat them as professionals!
Well there you go, holding the children hostage. I sick of hearing people cry " oh the children, oh the poor children, they will suffer so". BULLSHIT!!!!
It's the damn adults that pay the bills and suffer.
I do not have any children to suffer, but I can tell you that if my taxes go up I sure will suffer.
will teachers work day by day w/o a contact? That will tell us if they are "about the kids" Loved the front page newspaper article where two ohio districts will share 1 super and eventually share other administrative roles and purchasing power. Nice editorial from Stow guy asking ""are schools for the kids OR the people who work in them?""????????????? Teaching was a job of service - not true now.. now it is "whats in it for meeeeeeeeeee" shameful!!
hi
I was referring to the children suffering from people teaching them that are not qualified. No holding the children hostage here. I agree with you that it is the taxpaying citizens who are suffering! We all need to get to Columbus, and Ted Strickland and let him know what we think! We can make a difference and we can help change things!
Bust the union: I believe the teachers will work day to day as long as the BOE will continue negotiations. No reason not to. I do not believe the teachers want a strike any more than any of you do.
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